Fans vs. Ticket Touts for The Green Day Tour – Touts 34 Fans 0
As a rather big Green Day fan I was excited when the dates for Green Day's UK tour were released. Two gigs at the MEN (Manchester Evening News Arena) in Manchester. Tickets went on sale at 10am on 1st May. This is the story of my morning of excitement and disappointment!
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9:55 - I'm sat here with my card in hand ready to order 7 tickets for myself and friends. It had been rumoured that it would be limited to 2 tickets per person so I had friends standing by ready to order in case this was true.
9:58 - I starts refreshing the page waiting for that Order link to arrive.
10:00 - Order link is there, I clicks it and finds out that it is 2 per person all is fine I start the process to purchase my 2 tickets and let friends know they have to go do the same.
10:01 - I'm greeted with the "Please wait" sign on ticket master
10:03 - "No Tickets Found" appears on screen! Presuming this is just an error with the site due to clicking to fast I goes through the process again, and again, and again. Finding the same problems, cries of "It's sold out" appear through MSN and text messages.
10:05 - I visit 3 other ticket selling websites only to see a massive "SOLD OUT" sign plastered across all the Standing tickets for both days!
10:10 - After many phone calls and chats about what we are going to do I decide to check e-bay. A search for "Green Day MEN" results in 6 pairs of tickets already available. This is 10 minutes after the tickets officially went on sale. Prices range from £80 starting bid to £250.
10:30 - The same search on ebay now reveals 34 tickets available to purchase on ebay! The buy it now tickets have vanished giving some lucky touts a nice hefty profit.
So here lies the issues with ticket sales... Why is it possible for 34 tickets to be available on ebay at this point in time for over double the price, however it's impossible for me to get hold of 7 tickets for dedicated fans! Something NEEDS to be done about the state of ticket sales in this country! Limiting tickets to 2 per person clearly isn't working and all it does it mess up legitimate fans. For example, if we now want to go purchase seated tickets, we need to purchase 7 of them. The odds on us managing to get 7 seats together are probably less than winning the lottery, which will leave the possibilty of 1 of our friends having to sit alone. THat's not a fun time for anyone!
I think it's time we started having Photo tickets! Sites such as ticketmaster have profiles of people and when tickets are printed they appear with your photo and name! This would not stop people like me ordering for friends as you could have your account set up with details of all your friends so you could specify which people you were buying tickets for. This would completely stop touts as you would know that if your ticket didn't have your face on it you'd just get rejected anyway!
It's time something was done about this! Why should real fans be expected to pay over the top prices on ebay due to ticket sellers inability to think of a better way to verify ticket purchases!
December 2nd, 2009 at 17:01
Even if you discount people getting pre-sale tickets (which for reference were not available for this tour even through the Green Day fan program) it does not excuse what is happening. I never said there was a huge conspiracy going on and I don’t imagine huge gangs of “Ticket Touts” sat round a table practicing their evil laughs for ticket sale days. However I still find it very unfair that within 30 minutes of tickets going on sale to this gig there were 34 tickets on eBay for over double the price, this form of over charging would be very inappropriate in a business related world however you judge it as “Supply and Demand.” The chances of me getting a ticket are highly reduced by the pure number of “touts” purchasing tickets in the same way as me. I would be more than happy to not get a ticket to a gig if I knew that the tickets went straight to the Fans for the price they were meant to be sold for without a hefty profit being made by someone for managing to press “Buy” first and then be able to press “Sell” on eBay. If you want to compare this to real business and the profit they make then feel free to purchase a shop, employ staff, keep up your business overheads and then come back to me to justify the profit that people put on these tickets!
Your description of “Doing my homework” would generally involve me traveling 100 miles on the off chance of buying a last minute ticket at a cheap price. I have attended MANY gigs and festivals over the last 10+ years and I have seen tickets being sold for as little as £1 but the majority of “Touts” sell tickets for well above the box office price even 5 minutes before doors are opening.
There may be a level playing field between “touts” and the public, however, the more “touts” on sites buying tickets for re-sale value drastically reduces the chances of an actual fan getting a ticket. So again, I don’t think there is some magical conspiracy just the fact that it reduces our chances thus forcing us to pay higher prices from “touts.”
No I do not have any problems with people making money. A local company, that I have had many dealings with in the past, buy tickets and then sell them on with a reasonable markup. But they also include transport to the gig with the tickets. Now I can accept this as a reliable business model as they provide an extra service and the markup on the tickets is not as large as “Touts” tend to add. I have no form of “envy” and maybe there is a small amount of research involved however not enough to justify the amount of profit made by “touts”
If all “touts” were to set up a ticketmaster style business using your current business model of “Supply and Demand” you would see a huge difference in the business you would make. If you were allocated a set amount of tickets (like a ticket seller would be) and then went to sell them at the prices you currently charge then you would ALWAYS be the last companies to sell your tickets purely because people would purchase them from cheaper stores. I would also think (though can be sure) that you would also be governed by law (or at least the companies providing the tickets) to sell them for a competitive price and not for the current prices being charged.
Although “Touts” are not one sole company, if they were they would be effectively be creating a Monopoly, something I think you will find is highly frowned upon in this country!
As I have said, I have no problems with legitimate fans getting tickets instead of me, and I also have no problems with people making profit. I would, however, like a chance to get my tickets legitimately or not be forced to purchase tickets at double the price they were originally sold for just to make a “Tout” a “Quick Buck”
December 2nd, 2009 at 16:03
“The supply and demand argument doesn’t really work. I could happily accept people buying tickets 3, 4, 5 days after an event and selling them on, however, in this case despite being on a website trying to purchase tickets from the moment they went on sale I was denied this due to Ticket Touts flooding websites and buying everything available, putting them on e-bay literally minutes after an event has gone on sale.”
You have just as much chance as any tout of getting tickets. As I said, I am a “tout”; and there is no “conspiracy” – you just have to do your homework beforehand. Ticket touts make money, like so maney other people, because most people are lazy: they won’t trawl the internet days before looking for where the tickets are on sale etc and for presales.
“Yes good deals can be had at times as you state, but this doesn’t change the fact that selling tickets at prices like you state are not because you are offering a bargain but because you misjudged your “Market” and are trying to “Cut your losses.” ”
Yes and? Do you really think that when shops offer discounted items it is because they do not want to just get rid of them and cut their losses? Do you think they do it out of the kindness of their hearts? Ticket touting is no different. There is a secret to getting cheap tickets from touts and tickets can be picked up for a pittance should people do their homework.
The HMV argument again assumes that there isn’t a level playing field between the public and the touts; there is. Like I said, I am a tout and there is no “conspiracy”; I work hard to find out all the information re sales; the public will just plonk themselves down infront of ticketmaster at 9am of the general sale with a slow bradband connection and wonder why they didn’t get good seats.
And to your last point. Ok, and fair enough, your grievance may not be about touts making money, but you can’t tell me that this isn’t a lot if not most people’s problem with it. It’s nothing more than an envy of the perception that people are making money too easily when they have to slave in a job they hate for pittance.
So then, why would it be any better for ticketmaster, or “ticketmaster style” businesses to make all the money but not individual touts?
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:15
The supply and demand argument doesn’t really work. I could happily accept people buying tickets 3, 4, 5 days after an event and selling them on, however, in this case despite being on a website trying to purchase tickets from the moment they went on sale I was denied this due to Ticket Touts flooding websites and buying everything available, putting them on e-bay literally minutes after an event has gone on sale.
Yes good deals can be had at times as you state, but this doesn’t change the fact that selling tickets at prices like you state are not because you are offering a bargain but because you misjudged your “Market” and are trying to “Cut your losses.” Having worked in many shops in the past I know all about profit margins and how companies work. I would also be equally annoyed if, for example, Green Day released an album for sale through their website and HMV purchased every copy and started charging a 100%+ markup on them through their stores.
This post was nothing to do with my financial state, I had the money to purchase the tickets at the price they were being sold for by the distributor. Ticket Touts decided to inflate these prices and although I could afford the tickets at the prices on ebay I shouldn’t have to do so, I should be allowed to purchase them at the price they are advertised, if ticket touts want to make extra profit on sales of tickets then why don’t they set up their own Ticketmaster style website?
December 2nd, 2009 at 11:55
What a silly and immature post. Do you want communism? If so, go live in Cuba and see how much fun that is.
Ticket touting is the free market – you want to stop it, then the only way that’s gonna happen is if ticketmaster put their prices up so the profit margin is too low for anyone else to make any money. Why would you want that? I am a “ticket tout”; why begrudge me making money when the alternative is a huge company making even more money than they already do?
Ticket touting also means there are bargains to had if you approach it cleverly. For example, today i just sold two exellent Eddie Izzard tickets for this Thursday on ebay for £5. What a bargain for the buyer. Do you think ticketmaster would sell two great tickets at that price? Fuck no. And what’s with all the hate about people making money? So what. Like I said, we live in a capitalist society. You don’t like it, then start a revolution and get put in jail or something.
You don’t “hate” a shopkeeper when he doesn’t charge you the “real” price for the goods he sells; because he buys them a lot cheaper you know? Or didn’t you know that?
Grow up. Ticket touts like myself put a lot of effort into finding out when presales are on; and we also often lose money through poor ticket buying decisions.
All it means in the end is that tickets go at their market value; if a ticket sells for £1000 then that’s because that is what it’s worth. Simple supply and demand.
And less of the “true fans” bit. Why are these so-called “true fans” only poor people? If they were that much of a “true fan” then they’ed happily work harder to spend more money on their desired tickets.
May 18th, 2009 at 19:21
They are total total bastards.
How can they sell out in 3 minutes? thats 40000 tickets in 3 minutes. or 20000 purchases. Its impossible!
Then there are people selling 10 on ebay and so many other ticket resale sites that its disgusting.
Very very easy for them to fix this – sms tickets to the phone is how they do it in the USA. Instant total fool proof change. However someone is getting massive backhanders here. I wouldnt be suprised if 95% are sold to touts before they go on sale. When they get caught I think they should be tried for acts of henious crimes against the art of an age
they can sit next to our MP’s in jail for their fraudulent ripping off of both us the buyers, and green day as well. They might get 20% of tickets as a band, but touts get something like 60% profit right? just for being a complete bastard
hate hate hate
May 1st, 2009 at 17:53
17:53 – 216 Tickets now on ebay!
May 1st, 2009 at 13:56
I have spent the last year and tens of thousands of pounds on this new website http://www.myticketpod.com I am really struggling to get members signed up and this is going to stop ticket touts completely, there are no limits to the tickets you can buy, but you do have to enter the other members’ membership numbers to purchase for them. Please have a look at my invention and please put the word out there for me.
I know the events on there are scarce at the moment, but it’s a chicken and egg situation; I need members to get events, but also need events to get members. If I can get a few thousand members who show their comitment to this cause, I’m sure we can get the big events in no time.
May 1st, 2009 at 11:35
11:34 – 114 Tickets now available on ebay.
May 1st, 2009 at 11:24
11:22 – 91 Tickets now available to purchase on ebay!
May 1st, 2009 at 11:18
Although I am a libertarian by nature, there is clearly a utilitarian argument for photo tickets so that actual fans can go to the gigs rather than people simply profiteering……….ah, fuck this; they are all a bunch of cunts and deserve to die in a horrible way. That is all.